Interview 3 – English-Winter 2009- Walter Ogris – Emil Stejnar
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Walter Ogris Conducts a Personal Interview with Emil Stejnar
Interview with Emil Stejnar winter 2009
Archive of Hermetic Texts
(translatet by Eva and Bill Cranstoun)
© Walter Ogris
Ogris: When will the new edition of your book on Franz Bardon and the Thebaic Calender finally appear? I am continually being asked about them.
Stejnar: The Bardon book will come out in 2010. I am still getting important inspirations and information more than 60 pages which I will certainly include. It is not decided yet if I will make the Thebaic Calender publicly available. The practice has shown that the described techniques cannot be practiced without danger for everyone.
Ogris: Why do you still have no internet connection? Everywhere your name pops up but you still don’t have your own homepage? You are otherwise a very modern person and very open minded. You could manage interactions with your readers much more easily.
Stejnar: As you know I have gone into retreat and don’t receive visitors anymore. I don’t own a cell phone either and am on reachable by a few friends. Still, I don’t have time for the internet. I am therefore very happy that you are there to represent me, and have created with your Homepage, a serious starting place for Bardon readers. So long as you keep me up to date, sufficiently I will be fully informed.
Ogris: Why have you gone into retreat? Are you disappointed in the world? Have you resigned or do you simply want to have quiet?
Stejnar: That last one hits the nail on the head. When you get older, you find much that can rob you of your time and you are much more careful with it. If the books I have written help a few people to find their way and help to give meaning to their existence then I am content. I had no expectations that the world would become a better place right awayt. But I admit that I am a bit worried. Never has the spirit that rules the world been so egoistic, cold and dangerous as in the beginning of the third millennium. If a change in the direction of the thinking of mankind doesn’t come soon, the evolution on this planet will face a huge setback.
Ogris: Where do you see the greatest danger? Inconsiderate behavior? Brutality? Greed?
Stejnar: You`ll be surprised. The real danger comes from lies, noise and gullibility. The evil that rules the world in this time hides in lies and gains power over mankind in that we are numbed with noise. Only in the quiet can the incarnated spirit find its spiritual roots and can identify with itself. Only in the quiet does the spirit have access to the power that corresponds to its nature, and lifts him above other beings and above his own lesser parts. Only in the quiet can the energy flow to strengthens him. Every tone, every noise, every sound distracts and binds him, with the spirit of anothere sphere depending on the rhythm and tone. In so far as it has to do with harmonic frequencies the qualities forced upon us will not be dangerous. Good music can be relaxing, uplifting and, like a drug, can temporarily liberating. But as a rule, we are surrounded by noise and racket that sounds demonic. Apart from street noise that we can’t escape, we are always confronted with aggressive pounding from loudspeakers, reminding us more of sounds of war, violence and chaos than of music. Loud noise is dangerous. Especially the hectic shrill, dissonant, computer generated songs that are pounded into young people`s brains with headphones. No one notices that a power is hidden behind this which blocks the spiritual development of mankind.
The musical electronic roar of artificial instruments, the constant racked in the background, whether in shops, the workplace, in free time or on television where intelligent broadcasts of the spoken word are drowned out with nonsensical ugly noisy backgrounds, all this creates stress, numbs and hinders the spirit from independent thinking. Thereby the sense for truth and justice get lost. Whoever gets used to this terror from this noise or even willingly exposes themselves to it, can not meditate anymore. They will feel uncomfortable in the quiet which the spirit otherwise needs for its relaxation and development, and becomes sick.
Noise and lies are the illness of our time. Noise is a poison and works like an acoustic drug which dissolves inhibitions, confuses and numbs. And the use of lies binds them into the world of shadow powers. The world has become shrill and no one can come to rest. And it becomes obscure to our understanding because lies obfuscate the truth. Deafened and blinded to such an extent, the spirit has become gullible and dull.
Ogris: What can be done about this?
Stejnar: One must strengthen one’s consciousness. The most important is the exercise of wakefulness that I have again and again emphasized and described. Whoever experiences everyday life consciously as a spirit and considers what is experienced as spiritual schooling, creates with the idea “I Am” an inner core around which, in the course of years those cells of our being can crystalize, (Wesenszellen) that lift the spirit and free it. All other Hermetic exercise demand only the development of one element, and when the complimentary element is not strengthened, a one sidedness comes about and disturbs inner balance. Concentration exercises must be balanced with relaxation, exercises of the will with empathy and compassion, and so on. Only through the exercise, of “I Am” the fifth element, the Akasha of the unshakable middle is strengthened, and therefore, can not be practiced enough.
Ogris: And what do you consider as obstacles on the path?
Stejnar: Obstacles are simply weaknesses and passions especially the small, apparently meaningless ones, because they are not recognized and therefore not worked upon. These can develop, into serious character flaws without being noticed, that are only with difficulty brought under control. The earlier steps are taken against a bad quality or habit, the easier they are to conquer. In the process, every good intention towards mastering oneself is already an important act, that actually lifts consciousness above its own impulses. I don’t want to preach morals and virtues. After all, character flaws can be worked on and when they are overcome then spiritual energy is gained. Only lies are taboo for the Hermetic student. Lying is the most pitiful, cowardly, and rotten quality that can develop in a human spirit. Lies bind the liar directly to the plane of destructive powers. Every evil begins with a lie. Most people are not aware of this. These days, lying takes place hourly, daily, continuously without a second thought given over to it. But every lie, even what appears as the smallest, meaningless untruth, leaves tracks in the Akasha, and creates in the mental plane a shadow world in which the liar is bound. These illusory worlds of believed lies only dissolve very slowly and obstruct the liar from insight into Truth. Every lie strengthens the power of evil and gives the shadow more influence over the liar and the world.
Whoever, in contrast, strives for Truth, righteousness, and compassion and actually lives according to these in practice, receives an energy and power that lifts him above the gods and demons. To commit oneself to Truth demands courage and uprightness. Success built upon lies is deeply shameful for everyone who believes in the power of the spirit and spiritual worlds and beings.
With this opportunity I would like to thank all of my readers who courageously have come out as esoteric students, and have written positive reviews of my books on the internet. We don’t want to be missionaries, but whoever points to a book which offers an accessible path that brings light to a wakeful conscious self is no sectarian. He serves, in that way, the plan of creation and may feel themselves connected to the circle of initiates that work for the spiritual development of Humanity.
Ogris: Many friends are shy to openly declaring themselves as esoteric students. They fear being seen as believers in miracles and that their career and business would be hurt.
Stejnar: I know. But the Gnostic Hermeticism has nothing to do with the occultism of the last century. The Magic and Mysticism of the Third millennium follows practical experience and scientifically comprehensible models in thinking. No one needs to feel embarrassed over this. It is no coincidence that at this time the “Red Book” of CG Jung is being made available in which he summarizes all of his personal occult experiences. He also had the problem as a scientist, to stand by his opinion on magic and mysticism. In the end he even gave up his teaching activity because of this. I believe that we must not leave the world to the materialists who have no wisdom, nor to the religious fanatics and preachers of hate. No matter which religion they come from. Enlightenment is just as important as it was two hundred years ago. At that time the Freemasons set the course. Today, everyone is called to point the way to the true Adept.
Ogris: What do you think about the founding of a Bardon association? In the third appended edition of the book, Memories of Franz Bardon, there is a letter in which Franz Bardon writes to Maria Provica, the following; “I would welcome it, if a circle of my students and followers
in your area would grow further and and form a community that represents the interested of true initiation.”
Also you write in your Guardian Angel book of a community to which your readers should find themselves together. In later books you have distanced yourself from this idea. How do you stand now in regard to this?
Stejnar: Now, the The Guardian Angel Book was originally meant as an entrance into the practice of Hermetics for those who are religiously or mystically predisposed. At that stage, a community is often sought, and it is also needed. In spite of this I already pointed in that book to the dangers that come with forming associations. Especially when prayers, meditations, and ritual actions are carried out together that should connect the group, the danger is very great that a spiritual group entity is created that in truth does not correspond to the spirit. In addition to that, there is always the effect ot the group-dynamics, which creates certain roles and competition for positions of power. A phenomenon found everywhere where a group of people have organized themselves in such a community. That so many Bardon students would work with The Guardian Angel Book because they would achieve success faster than with practicing magical evocation, is something that I didn’t foresee at that time. In my opinion Bardon’s path must be trodden alone. Whoever still needs a circle of similarly minded people in which he feels connected is not yet ripe for the path. That Bardon apparently had another opinion surprised me. But in his time there were in the lodges and occult circles still serious researchers, and for such people a magical community is thinkable, also today . Also, even if I am not a friend of associations and spiritual communities, my experiences in the life of the in lodges have given me important insights. At certain stages of development specific experiences can be very meaningful. A community of like minded can be an advantage for the participants.
Ogris: You have put together for certain advanced friends the “Ritual of the Hermetic Four” which was later made available in your book “The Four Elements, The secret Key to Spiritual Power” after it was published by someone from outside the circle without permission. Wouldn’t that be the ideal foundation for group work in the sense of Franz Bardon? This ritual seems very much aligned with his teachings and the path to the true Adept.
Stejnar: As my friends report, there are lodges and esoteric circles that already work with this. Participation is tied to meeting certain conditions so that even non initiates who keep to these conditions can do this work safely. But I fear that the conditions will not be upheld in every case. I was also young once, and have conducted experiments. Also, conjurings, and evocations, and for these the Ritual is not exactly suited.
Ogris: You describe in your Guardian Angel Book how, even without the extensive procedure of evocation, a connection can be made with the genii. Is that really possible? There are people who would doubt that.
Stejnar: Rightly so, because we don’t know if the intended effect is actually caused by the Intelligence whose sigil is used to call it, or from an elemental unconsciously created through expectation and contact with the sigil. Experience shows merely that it works. This practice of mystical invocation is also practiced in different religions. Bardon calls this the mystical path, when through concentration and devotion to a god, and through the identifying with its qualities contact is made with the being. Whether a statue is used, a picture, or a sigil, or a kyilkhor as a support for consciousness, is up to each to decide, and has no significance for success.
Ogris: If that actually works does it not contain certain dangers? Bardon warns very strongly about the use of sigils over a longer period of time because a type of dependence can arise.
Stejnar: That’s right. Also the passive traffic with the genii hides dangers. Whoever makes a connection through conscious devotion to a subtle plane intelligence can be attracted by energies from this sphere and be influenced, just as in a contact established through magical evocation. Although, we still don’t know whether the actual being or an elemental is responsible for the intended effect. I must warn against continuously carring the sigil of any being. I recommend everyone who uses an amulet, to put it away after a while. We have had the experience that through a passive interaction with the genii the strived for qualities unfold gradually in one`s own consciousness, and a longer contact is absolutely not necessary.
Ogris: That means, even if an Intelligence is not directly addressed, as soon as one focuses in that direction, one has to deal with energies from its plane. How can this happen?
Stejnar: Communication with other beings and with spirits from other spheres takes place digitally not analogically. The contact will always take place by means of the inner soul cells (Wesenszellen) or elementals and elementaries corresponding to the qualities of the being. During magical evocations as well, like Franz Bardon describes, a condensation of the quality of the spirit is necessary, so the spirit can manifest itself in the material world. For a mystical invocation one does not condense a quality in the room, but instead within the thoughts and expectations of your personal inner space. And in the case of making contact using an amulet or a kyilkhor, the sigil serves as a support for consciousness to
impregnate the corresponding inner soul structures (Wesenszellen) of the intelligence that is called into proximity.
More exactly stated, there is no direct communication with another being. Even the meetings with others in the material world happen with the help of mediums such as sound and light waves. What we perceive is the impression of these mediums on our sense organs and the images that we create from the impressions, and not the person in front of us. Even on the material plane all perceptions are after images of the perceived and not the person, the event, or the object itself. No matter what we hear, see, sense, smell or taste, we always have to do with signals to consciousness, with electronically stimulated braincells, with messenger chemicals and not with the original trigger for the signal itself. The messenger chemicals of the subtle plane are the elementals and elementaries. These inner soul structures (Wesenszellen) of human spirit and soul aren’t any different from those of the spirits. That is why it is so hard to differentiate an inspiration from an actual knowing, a hallucination from an appearance of a spirit, or a schizophrenia from a “possession.”